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arvydaslt123

Scripters Attitudes towards scripts

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I Would like to ask the community, and to know their position towards scripters.
I dont want to mention all the scripters, but am I the only guy who notices that most of the premium scripters, are currently just selling their scripts  without any maintenance or support?
They are not answering questions or bugs in their threads, ignoring user complaints, ignoring PM messages due being online and so on...
I think the community could name several scripts, that are currently being sold in the repository, but are not functioning or fully working.
Is there a way to prevent paying for scripts, and afterwards fighting for your money?

I want to repeat myself, I am not talking about all the scripters or all of their scripts! 
Waiting for your opinion..

For a couple examples check these threads ant user complaints:

 

 

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I complely agrea, i know only few scripters that i can trust and know that they will provide the support they need, but can't say the same about most scripters, a lot of them just ignores the messages or claims that the scirpt is working "properly" perfect example is - @Netami barrows script.

From what i can see the most relieble scripter out here is @Worthy i see he coments on his threads providing support to his custumers daily, not to mention guiding his custumers, while others just ignores till they get disputed.

 
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i understand if scripters stop being active, jagex has upgraded their system, and it is really hard for new botters/customers to get into botting , which leads to almost no sales.
So why waste your time? Majority of the active people have been here for months if not years and know how to get around bans

Besides that, TRibot client development is close to non existing, or very very slow, which would attract new botters/customers.
To sum up: botting has become harder, gold prices get lower, more bans, (no) client development -> less customers -> less motivated scripters

Edited by Butta
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While the client isn't being updated very often, it mostly doesn't need to.

 

But it does fall harder on the scripter. As long as the hooks aren't broken, were fine. 

 

Don't let a scripter tell you that they can't do anything because the World Hopper is broken or the GE API has some quirks. They can fix it. 

 

My suggestion is to use free trials and low cost options until you are satisfied. One of the problems is that many scripts come in 2-4 week packages. If you buy a 2 week auth, and there's something broken, you cannot expect it to be fixed in a day. 

Ask for a refund and indicate that you'll buy it again if it works.

 

If all else fails, warn others. This is a free market and a free forum. I don't believe negative speak is censored. 

Make your own review thread(s). Just make sure they're polite and professional (and factual). Also be willing to update it when changes occur.

 

Scripters aren't worried about scripts because 40-70% functionality is all that's required for sales. Because even with a half broken script, some gold Farmers manage to profit. 

 I remember making scripts and I'm now ashamed at the quality, yet every once in a while I'd get a message about how much money it had made them. And yet others were telling me the script is broken and worthless.

 

In the meantime, I'm working to release quality public scripts. I'm going to apply for my premium rank back soon. I can assure you that for every premium script I have, there will be a free one that's indicative of the quality. 

Stay tuned. 

Edited by wastedbro
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2 minutes ago, wastedbro said:

While the client isn't being updated very often, it mostly doesn't need to.

 

But it does fall harder on the scripter. As long as the hooks aren't broken, were fine. 

 

Don't let a scripter tell you that they can't do anything because the World Hopper is broken or the GE API has some quirks. They can fix it. 

 

My suggestion is to use free trials and low cost options until you are satisfied. One of the problems is that many scripts come in 2-4 week packages. If you buy a 2 week auth, and there's something broken, you cannot expect it to be fixed in a day. 

Ask for a refund and indicate that you'll buy it again if it works.

 

If all else fails, warn others. This is a free market and a free forum. I don't believe negative speak is censored. 

Make your own review thread(s). Just make sure they're polite and professional (and factual). Also be willing to update it when changes occur.

 

Scripters aren't worried about scripts because 40-70% functionality is all that's required for sales. Because even with a half broken script, some gold Farmers manage to profit. 

 I remember making scripts and I'm now ashamed at the quality, yet every once in a while I'd get a message about how much money I had made them. And yet others were telling me the script is broken and worthless.

 

In the meantime, I'm working to release quality public scripts. I'm going to apply for my premium rank back soon. I can assure you that for every premium script I have, there will be a free one that's indicative of the quality. 

Stay tuned. 

The words you wrote look awesome, I wish and hope the script functionality would be awesome too. Cheers

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4 hours ago, wastedbro said:

Don't let a scripter tell you that they can't do anything because the World Hopper is broken or the GE API has some quirks. They can fix it. 

 

I disagree with your stance on the topic. In fact, it is this mentality that ultimately leads to the overall degradation of our script repository. Just because a scripter can fix (or better put work around) something, doesn’t mean they should.

Take for example the world hopper. I can’t count the amount of times someone has complained in a script thread I’ve viewed about the world hopper. A large number being personal API written, as well as some using the provided TRIBoT API. This obviously introduces one of the most common code smells, duplicated code.

The core API should be fixed, if not there should be plans to spin down (deprecated/removed etc.). I could wax poetical about the topic, but I will close with every script that has deep ingrained work arounds I have seen fail over time. Developer interest dwindles over time, and the script falls out of maintenance. Of course, there are exceptions but for every 1 exception there is likely 3 that follow suite. Especially when referencing scripts written by entry level developers.

 

Warfront1    

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20 minutes ago, warfront1 said:

 

I disagree with your stance on the topic. In fact, it is this mentality that ultimately leads to the overall degradation of our script repository. Just because a scripter can fix (or better put work around) something, doesn’t mean they should.

Take for example the world hopper. I can’t count the amount of times someone has complained in a script thread I’ve viewed about the world hopper. A large number being personal API written, as well as some using the provided TRIBoT API. This obviously introduces one of the most common code smells, duplicated code.

The core API should be fixed, if not there should be plans to spin down (deprecated/removed etc.). I could wax poetical about the topic, but I will close with every script that has deep ingrained work arounds I have seen fail over time. Developer interest dwindles over time, and the script falls out of maintenance. Of course, there are exceptions but for every 1 exception there is likely 3 that follow suite. Especially when referencing scripts written by entry level developers.

 

Warfront1    

 

You have a point, but it's flawed. You are not taking into account that Premium Scripters are legally independent contractors that are selling independent products using a platform. 

As long as a script is for sale, it should be functional. If a scripter leaves and their own home-spun APIs break, their scripts should be removed. Free scripts should use the API as much as possible because it helps ensure the script will work if they leave.

This does not apply when you are selling something...

because as long as it's up for sale, you should be maintaining it.

 

It's important to consider that TRibot's updates are too slow. What happens when all scripters say their script will work when Tribot fixes that API? Everyone leaves TRibot because the World Hopper has been broken for a ridiculously long time. We're not talking about a few days here.

We should consider the World Hopper and GE API removed. When it gets fixed, we should consider it re-added.

 

I'm not talking about duplicate code. I'm talking about replacement code. I'm talking about 2 small APIs. If you can't maintain a World Hopper and GE API, please don't apply for premium scripter, because it's mostly just interface IDs for the most part (which a good implementation would auto-detect).

Those APIs aren't our code. We can't access it, so it's not possible to duplicate it. Are they similar? Maybe, maybe not. It depends on the implementation. The point is that it's not a bad engineering decision to replace broken APIs, but it's an amazing business decision.

 

And here's the best part...

If Tribot fixes it, you simple change your dependency to use it (although if I'm replacing tribot's API, I'll improve it, so I'd keep mine).

 

If you want to be treated as a software seller, act like one. The bottom line is:

If you can fix your software, do it.

If you can't (or if it will take a while), pause sales.

 

I know it's frustrating (I'm also guilty of unprofessional practices), but it's the bottom line if you want sales.

 

When it comes to a script, this is what the customer cares about:

  • Features
  • Quality
  • Price
  • Uptime

If you are unable to provide the highest uptime possible due to broken APIs, that's fine. I'm sure someone with their own APIs (and a moderate amount of engineering skill to maintain them) will be happy to take your business (could be another premium scripter, could be another botting client).

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The API provided by TRiBoT is a product consumed by paying customers, and by premium scripters commissions. All the issues with client API being outdated are issues up stream that need to be addressed.

When I look back at my most successful low maintenance scripts, it was those that kept it simple, sticking to core API. Some of these scripts started back in early as 2013, and still maintained until this day. Some not even being updated for years at a time and still operational. Scripts that last offer much more value than flashy scripts that last 3 months before the developer goes MIA and the scripts stops functioning.

 

Warfront1

Edited by warfront1

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18 minutes ago, warfront1 said:

The API provided by TRiBoT is a product consumed by paying customers, and by premium scripters commissions. All the issues with client API being outdated are issues up stream that need to be addressed.

When I look back at my most successful low maintenance scripts, it was those that kept it simple, sticking to core API. Some of these scripts started back in early as 2013, and still maintained until this day. Some not even being updated for years at a time and still operational. I like building scripts that last, not flashy scripts that last 3 months before the developer goes MIA and the scripts stops functioning.

 

Warfront1

If you're fine with "issues up stream" costing you business, that's fine.

It's also perfectly fine that you avoid innovation. If you are unable to maintain a few hundred lines of code, you certainly shouldn't try to sell it. I'm glad you've found a comfort zone in which you don't have to work. The life of a shed builder is bound to be easier than that of a skyscraper architect. 

 

I simply cannot do that, and would rather build better products. Yes, it will involve more maintenance. Turns out that's just how software (or really anything) works.

Edited by wastedbro
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Its very strange that you mention that the scripter dose not have to fix the problem, ive been dealing with scripts ( private scripts ) scripters allways provide the updates even if the thing is broken.

For example i had same problem with world hoping aswell, send the pm to my scripter witch is @Worthy he handled that in 5mins or so?

So how come other scripters can't handle this? Perhaps dont put it for sale then if its not your job to fix this , then its not your job to claim the money for the script that is not working aswell.

 Have you seen a broken product that are selling as "perfect condition" i don't think so. I believe you must have respect for your custumers and atleast try to reply them. 

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@wastedbro The following quote can be said about the client aswell. As a premium scripter, you are inadvertently paying for a working client almost as much as users are. It would also be in TRiLeZ's best interest to have a fully functional API because the more premium scripts sales there are, the more he makes.

Quote

This does not apply when you are selling something...

because as long as it's up for sale, you should be maintaining it.

If you can fix your software, do it.

If you can't (or if it will take a while), pause sales.

While a scripter can develop workarounds for the given examples, you would not be having the same argument if it was something critical such as player position returning null or uptext returning null. If TRiLeZ shouldn't be held responsible for maintaining non-critical methods in the API, then those methods need to be deprecated or removed from the API.

Where I do agree with you is that it is a good business decision for scripters to have their own workarounds for broken methods and put in the effort to keep those custom methods working. I'm not saying they shouldn't be doing this, but at the end of the day, the same argument you're making can be applied to the client and TRiLeZ as well.


To address the original post, most or all of the premium scripters started at TRiBot as a hobby and for some side cash while they were in high school or early years of college. Now they either have internships or have graduated and have officially started their careers so they no longer have the time, interest, or need for TRiBot. I don't think anyone at TRiBot except TRiLeZ makes enough to treat it as a full time job. Most premium scripters make nothing close to a living wage from TRiBot. Overall, the problem is there are very few new scripters with credible knowledge coming into the scene to take their place. People do lose their premium scripter rank, but no one is coming in to fill those vacancies. So until enough new scripters enter the scene to take over from the current scripters, I don't expect anything to change. I also unfortunately don't see the current administration making changes anytime soon that will make premium scripters motivated to put more effort into their scripts, as they are part of the problem.

In the end it really comes down to lack of motivation from current scripters, lack of administration and motivation from current administrators, and lack of new talent entering the scripting scene.

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15 minutes ago, Encoded said:

@wastedbro The following quote can be said about the client aswell. As a premium scripter, you are inadvertently paying for a working client almost as much as users are. It would also be in TRiLeZ's best interest to have a fully functional API because the more premium scripts sales there are, the more he makes.

While a scripter can develop workarounds for the given examples, you would not be having the same argument if it was something critical such as player position returning null or uptext returning null. If TRiLeZ shouldn't be held responsible for maintaining non-critical methods in the API, then those methods need to be deprecated or removed from the API.

I can agree with you, but you must not confuse what "should be" with what is. They are often quite different. I can't control Trilez; I can only control my scripts. 

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16 minutes ago, wastedbro said:

I can agree with you, but you must not confuse what "should be" with what is. They are often quite different. I can't control Trilez; I can only control my scripts. 

That's why I've basically written a wrapper for the entire TRiBot API, to make it what it should be.

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4 hours ago, auryzas242 said:

Its very strange that you mention that the scripter dose not have to fix the problem, ive been dealing with scripts ( private scripts ) scripters allways provide the updates even if the thing is broken.

For example i had same problem with world hoping aswell, send the pm to my scripter witch is @Worthy he handled that in 5mins or so?

So how come other scripters can't handle this? Perhaps dont put it for sale then if its not your job to fix this , then its not your job to claim the money for the script that is not working aswell.

 Have you seen a broken product that are selling as "perfect condition" i don't think so. I believe you must have respect for your custumers and atleast try to reply them. 

Most all of us are in college or have full time jobs - we can't live on TRiBot 24/7 like a lot of our customers and unfortunately sometimes life just happens and forces us to be away for extended periods of time. It's much more important that I finish my degree than I make a few bucks in script sales. The refund section exists for a reason, I encourage my customers (as many have) to use it if I am forced away or the script is not functioning as promised and I have been unable to help.

Besides the fact that TRiBot receives little to no attention these days from TRiLeZ himself, scripters still do their best to make the product work well for customers. I can't count the number of QoL updates suggested by scripters that have been ignored or never seen by devs. 

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As others have said, the lack of attention from the administration has left majority of premium scripters demotivated as well. As @Encoded said, @wastedbro we pay for a working client and working API. If it isn't working it isn't our responsibility to fix API methods. We can do work arounds, however I don't like doing them as if I need to leave or anything happens, and my work around breaks, then script will be useless. If I use all API methods and assuming TRiLeZ actively fixed everything, nothing would ever go wrong.

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6 minutes ago, godspower33 said:

As others have said, the lack of attention from the administration has left majority of premium scripters demotivated as well. As @Encoded said, @wastedbro we pay for a working client and working API. If it isn't working it isn't our responsibility to fix API methods. We can do work arounds, however I don't like doing them as if I need to leave or anything happens, and my work around breaks, then script will be useless. If I use all API methods and assuming TRiLeZ actively fixed everything, nothing would ever go wrong.

And by no means do I think it should be a one man TRiLeZ show. He definitely should look into getting more help with the client, but that's on him to do so.

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3 minutes ago, Encoded said:

And by no means do I think it should be a one man TRiLeZ show. He definitely should look into getting more help with the client, but that's on him to do so.

@TRiLeZ 

#HelpWanted

I'm sure you'd get qualified applicants. A lot of scripters here are graduating (or have graduated) with a post-secondary education in the computer science / software engineering field.

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I'm pretty new but if you're going to sell a product yet have no intention of updating it you should let your consumers know you aren't planning on keeping the bot updated and may not be fully functional in the future. I can only imagine how much sales will be affected. Free scripts cost nothing so it's fine to move on however paid scripts are different, they're an investment. 

 

Simple really if you aren't going to keep the bot updated let us know by dropping a post once a week/fortnightly to let consumers know you're still around. Right now i'm lurking on free bots but will move to premium if i see a bot without enough positive feedback like all this praise @Worthy

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      AWS ElastiCache (Redis)


      AWS Load Balancing


      AWS EFS (Elastic file system)


      Please bare with us as I continue to tune the server for maximum performance. Slow loading speeds may occur temporarily. I thank everyone for their patience.

      Please post on this thread if you experience any issues other than slow loading times.
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    • This release will:

      Fix prayers and world hopper API (Thanks @JoeDezzy1 and @erickho123)


      Improve banking API (Thanks @Encoded)


      Adds methods for returning and using Java Lists, rather than arrays


      Slightly randomizes some hardcoded behaviour


      Removes sleeps from waitConditions; the efficiency saving potential is negligible in these use-cases, therefore cleaner code is preferable


      Other back-end improvements





      Note: If you are using LG, please restart both the RS client and TRiBot.
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